I just listened to David Skarbek‘s amazing EconTalk podcast, where he talks about his new book on the economics of prisons. I liked it so much I just ordered the book.
Some things I took away.
- How California prison evolved away from smaller sized groups of people following informal rules and norms. As prison populations got larger and larger these informal systems that enforced good behavior broke down, and more formal institutions or government were needed.
- But the formal prison system didn’t provide what inmates needed—be it security, or guarantees for credit, or systems of insurance. And so gangs formed semi-formal systems of protection from physical harm, of credit (through group liability), and insurance.
- If you’re in one of these prisons, you need to affiliate with a gang even if you don’t really participate, because someone has to be responsible for your behavior. Sort of like the state government makes you take car insurance with a company if you drive. They don’t want uninsured people wrecking the system.
- One thing that influences why gangs are race-based is that this makes it almost impossible to switch gangs, and so enforces commitment. It also lets people know who’s responsible for you at a glance. This is also why tattoos are so important.
- As prisons make more things illegal, they cede more authority and tax income to the gangs. So banning tobacco for public health reasons, or banning mobile phones and making prison pay phones very costly, enlarges the underground economy for cigarettes and mobile phones. this not only empowers the gangs and increases demand for them to govern these markets and provide the goods, but also gives them a larger source of revenue.
You might summarize it like this: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the real government doesn’t.
For a similar take on the “hidden internet”, see Henry Farrell’s recent piece. One of my favorite articles of the year.
People familiar with Mancur Olson’s tale of stationary versus roving bandits, or Diego Gambetta’s work on the mafia, will see a familiar pattern. But it’s the details that are fascinating.
Related is the Barry Weingast EconTalk podcast on the origins of law. Also worthwhile.
81 Responses
South Africa’s #ANC gov started in prison!
RT @TimHarford: How prison gangs are substitutes for governments http://t.co/uafXs4rA8S #corrupt
Gangs as prison governments http://t.co/9REkRrAnvs Why gangs are race based, how the came to be and why bans help sustain them.
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
RT @secgovcentre: Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/4fO8oFBn4f via @chrisblatts
Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/4fO8oFBn4f via @chrisblatts
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
RT cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons… http://t.co/MvLmvceTS2
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/dRQTvusswf
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
This just makes me think about why the Caste system in India is so rigid, and I can draw so many parallels!
Great to understand formal and informal institutions: “Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons)”: http://t.co/2hDTqi2kRY
“When there’s demand for governance, someone will supply. Even if the government doesn’t”
@cblatts http://t.co/6aqXi7pSg1 v/ @TimHarford
RT @cblatts: Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/nQlpfq8zrT
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
“Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the real government doesn’t.” http://t.co/unMvXR3nyS
Really interesting. Gangs as #prison governments (or the economics of prisons) #institutions http://t.co/y3M2awg7mW
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
Fascinating: Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/hUrQM5Clle
RT @TimHarford: How prison gangs are substitutes for governments http://t.co/amVXdL0tnS
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
Gangs as prison Gov’t “As prisons make more things illegal, they cede more authority and tax income to the gangs” http://t.co/aymoMg0VN3
@cblatts relatedly, the movie ‘Une Prophète’ is worth a watch, it gets at all these points. Oh and it’s really, really good.
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
RT @UCCOPacweb: Bigger prisons more reasons for development of gangs: Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons)
http://t.c…
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
RT @sdanthine: “Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the real government doesn’t.” http://t.co/bSaS25DFN5
“Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the real government doesn’t.” http://t.co/bSaS25DFN5
“@TimHarford: How prison gangs are substitutes for governments http://t.co/xAcDIeW1Tj” great convo starter #teachecon #TweetLikeAnEconomist
RT @TimHarford: How prison gangs are substitutes for governments http://t.co/amVXdL0tnS
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
RT @adelaigue: Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/vbHiP48HRE
Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/vbHiP48HRE
Interesting post on gangs forming in prisons by @cblatts https://t.co/nDnbWo33c0 could make similar arguments about extremist groups.
Bigger prisons more reasons for development of gangs: Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons)
http://t.co/kPy0TPmP2x
RT @TimHarford: How prison gangs are substitutes for governments http://t.co/amVXdL0tnS
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
RT @TimHarford: How prison gangs are substitutes for governments http://t.co/amVXdL0tnS
Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the real government doesn’t. (Gangs in Prison) http://t.co/FQeMHt5Be1
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
RT @cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.c…
RT @TimHarford: How prison gangs are substitutes for governments http://t.co/amVXdL0tnS
Where there is demand for government, someone will supply, says @cblatts http://t.co/5F8VB5DXas
Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. Even it if the government doesn’t. (lessons from prison) http://t.co/AqSpXhP2u9
If government did not exist…prisoners wd invent it http://t.co/Uvd1l6i0n3
…libertarians wd invent it http://t.co/aHYYdgeYRi h/t @TimHarford
Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons): I just listened to David Skarbek‘s amazing EconTalk… http://t.co/khj0HR5Bx9
RT @TimHarford: How prison gangs are substitutes for governments http://t.co/amVXdL0tnS
RT @PtitSeb: Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/fZjbDXOCPK
RT @TimHarford: How prison gangs are substitutes for governments http://t.co/amVXdL0tnS
RT @TimHarford: How prison gangs are substitutes for governments http://t.co/amVXdL0tnS
RT @cblatts: Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/nQlpfq8zrT
RT @TimHarford: How prison gangs are substitutes for governments http://t.co/amVXdL0tnS
RT @TimHarford: How prison gangs are substitutes for governments http://t.co/amVXdL0tnS
RT @cblatts: Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/nQlpfq8zrT
Tis migh be of interest to you… @gotyouhigh // “@TimHarford: How prison gangs are substitutes for governments http://t.co/CnIIB0JsPg“
RT @TimHarford: How prison gangs are substitutes for governments http://t.co/amVXdL0tnS
RT @TimHarford: How prison gangs are substitutes for governments http://t.co/amVXdL0tnS
How prison gangs are substitutes for governments http://t.co/amVXdL0tnS
The political economy of gangs as prison governments: http://t.co/hYrHc9fS6e fascinating! h/t @cblatts
Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/fZjbDXOCPK
“@cblatts: Where there is demand for government, someone will supply. http://t.co/sfKDJnX4De”
Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) via @cblatts http://t.co/WwU6yWhg4E
@cdsamii @cblatts his apsr paper is also worth reading
RT @cdsamii: Points 3 & 4 interesting from a Kandori (1992) social enforcement perspective MT @cblatts: Gangs as prison govts http://t.co/x…
Points 3 & 4 interesting from a Kandori (1992) social enforcement perspective MT @cblatts: Gangs as prison govts http://t.co/xwPphoLl51
Gangs as prison governments, and how their role has changed over time. http://t.co/THQNH6C0zk
Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/U55zYmb6rw
RT @cblatts: Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/nQlpfq8zrT
RT @cblatts: Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/nQlpfq8zrT
RT @cblatts: Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/nQlpfq8zrT
No matter how bad, some form of govt always develops -‘Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons)’ http://t.co/DfhOFnugvR
RT @cblatts: Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/nQlpfq8zrT
RT @cblatts: Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/nQlpfq8zrT
Anarchy breeds institutions, part 387: US prison inmates http://t.co/JB697PycmY
RT @cblatts: Gangs as prison governments (or the economics of prisons) http://t.co/nQlpfq8zrT